Response to Marshall Hall

THE PRETERIT VIEW: (One Page Summary)
STRAINING AT A GNAT AND SWALLOWING A CAMEL
Marshall Hall

A Vine & Fig Tree Response to Marshall Hall

Dating the writing of the Book of the Revelation is the first order of business for those who hold the Preterit View (that “end time” Scriptures were fulfilled with the sacking of Jerusalem in 70 AD). Preterist Dr. Gentry put it this way: “...the matter of Revelations date of composition is CRUCIAL to the correct [preterit] understanding of the book...the matter of dating is ALL-IMPORTANT to the identity of the Beast [of Revelation].” (Gentry: The Beast of Revelation, pp.6,7.)

Correctly dating the Book of Revelation is fairly straightforward as long as one puts the Bible itself ahead of "scholars." Just let the verse in the book speak for themselves. Don't try to "prove" any particular theory of prophecy or the second coming, just ask yourself what the author was trying to say to the people to whom he wrote the words. How did John expect his readers to understand what he was writing? Here is a summary of some important considerations:

1. The purpose of the Book of Revelation is: "to show to His bond-servants, the things which must shortly take place." (Rev. 1:1)
2. This purpose is consistently re-stated from beginning to end:: "The time is near." (Rev. 1:3); "I am coming quickly." (Rev. 3:11); "to show to His bond-servants the things which must shortly take place." (Rev. 22:6); "Behold, I am coming quickly. " (Rev. 22:7); "Do not seal up the words of the prophecy of this book, for the time is near." (Rev. 22:10; Compare Dan. 8:26); "Behold, I am coming quickly." (Rev. 22:12); "Yes, I am coming quickly." (Rev. 22:20)
3. This "coming quickly" idea is woven throughout the New Testament: 101 "Any Moment" Verses
4. The book instructs those who were then reading it. There is no hint or clue that what John was exhorting was intended for people living thousands of years in the future. John was writing to people who were about to experience something in their lifetime.: "Nevertheless what you have, hold fast until I come." (Rev. 2:25); "I also will keep you from the hour of testing which is about to come upon the whole world." (Rev. 3:10)
5. The book talks about Christ exercising His powers as judge of the world, taking vengeance against those who killed Him and persecute His disciples:: "And in her [the Great City Babylon] was found the blood of prophets and of saints and of all who have been slain on the earth." (Rev. 18:24; Compare Matt. 23:35-36; Lk. 11:50-51); "And she gave birth to a son, a male child, who is about to rule all the nations with a rod of iron." (Rev. 12:5)
6. The temple, which was destroyed in A.D. 70, is still standing when John is writing (Rev. 11:1-2)
7. The book is written primarily to the seven churches in Asia Minor, churches that actually existed in John's day.
8. John mentions “the number of those who were sealed, one hundred and forty-four thousand sealed from every tribe of the sons of Israel” (Rev. 7:4). James tells us that the “twelve tribes” were “dispersed abroad” in his day (James 1:1). Paul also acknowledges the existence of the twelve tribes (Acts 26:7). James M. MacDonald comments, “Many thousands, we know, had been converted from the Jewish to the Christian faith (see Acts ii. 41, vi. 7, xii. 24, xix. 20).” With this and other internal evidence, MacDonald concludes: “that a reader of the Apocalypse, without prepossessions as to the date, consulting the book itself as a witness on this point, cannot fail to come to the conclusion that it was written before the destruction of Jerusalem, in the reign of Nero, the sixth in succession to Julius Caesar in the empire of Rome.”
James M. MacDonald, The Life and Writings of St. John (New York: Scribner, Armstrong & Co., 1877), 166

The Date of Revelation: Geisler vs. Geisler

Biblical Worldview March 2006

Biblical Worldview April 2006

Let's see if our anti-preterist critic offers a Biblical response to these considerations.

The bottom line here is that Preterists themselves understand that their model cannot even exist without a composition date for the Revelation somewhere between late 64 and early 68 AD. That is the only way their model can try to cast the Emperor Nero or anyone else in the role of the Beast....	What preterists understand is that the book itself testifies to the date of its composition. The theme of an imminent judgment upon Israel pervades the entire New Testament. That judgment took place, as prophesied, in AD 70, before "that generation" passed away. While Matthew, Mark, and Luke devote a chapter to Jesus' "Olivet Discourse" (Matt. 24, Mark 13, Luke 21), John has nothing in his gospel about this subject. Instead, he wrote an entire book about the subject. All of this is a compelling Biblical argument for the date and subject matter of the book of Revelation.
This admission by itself is enough to run up the odds against this eschatological hypothesis to about 1000 to 1.	The odds against John talking about events thousands of years in the future, rather than events that must "shortly come to pass" are astronomical.
In addition to the fact that an impressive list of scholars date the composition around 95 AD, the early date--absolutely necessary, remember--even if true, simply can’t explain the load of Scriptures that must be laid on it.	There is only one ancient witness to the date of the Book of Revelation (Irenaeus, Bishop of Lyons (A.D. 120-202), and his testimony is ambiguous and confusing. He also believed that Jesus lived to be about 50 years old. His testimony is a very shaky reed against the full force of all the Biblical testimony to a Neronian date. All "scholars" who believe Revelation was written after the destruction of Jerusalem rely on an interpretation of what Iraneaus said, ignoring what the Bible itself says.
The martyr problem alone (Rev.6:11 & 20:4) is enough to cause Preterits to abandon ship. There are a couple dozen other Scriptural torpedoes capable of sinking that model which can’t be squeezed in here but are found in the 90 page book titled above and available below.	Unfortunately, I don't have the author's book, so I don't know what "the martyr problem" is. It hasn't caused me to "abandon ship."
A new star in the Preterist camp, John Noe, writes that “John of Gischala” fits “the man of sin” label (II Thess.2:3,4) better than Nero. Having sawn off the limb on which Dr. Gentry and most Preterists have always sat, Noe proceeds to twist Scripture right out of its socket, ignoring the Greek connotations on key words that bring his rickety structure down.	I was unaware the Gentry believed that Nero was "the man of sin." But the Bible is clear: Paul says the Thessalonians knew about this man and his work, since he was "already at work" (2 Thess. 2:6-7). This is a first-century event, even if we in the 21st century do not know his exact identity.
The Preterit effort to turn events that are unmistakably MODERN AND GLOBAL into events that are ANCIENT AND REGIONAL is not just a hermeneutical speed bump that can be ridden over; it is a wall that stops the whole paradigm in its tracks.	There's a lot of boastful rhetoric in this article, but not much Biblical substance. It never ceases to amaze me that premillennialists who talk about interpreting the Bible "literally" find nuclear weapons and helicopter gunboats in Ezekiel 38-39 and Revelation. A Dispensationalist Agrees with Me! There is nothing "modern" in these chapters, and the Book of Revelation is clearly talking about events in the 1st century Roman Empire. I've already quoted more 1st century verses in this column than can be found in the left-hand column proving hi-tech events thousands of years in the future. The Nonsense of “Plain Sense”
The Preterit folks--having seen thru the egregious errors of Dispensationalist and other Pre-Millennialist eschatologies--have made the false and unfortunate assumption that those are the only futurist interpretations possible. The only alternative, they avow, is the Preterit View, and they strain and sweat mightily to cram the whole end time business into a box labeled: “Distant Historical Past: 70 AD.” Nice try; but it won’t work.	My straining and sweating days are over. Before I became a preterist I had to strain and sweat to avoid the criticisms of liberals like Bertrand Russell, described here. The New Testament consistently and relentlessly claims that the significant eschatological events which Tim LaHaye says are yet future would in fact occur in the lifetime of the first readers of the New Testament. It's much easier to accept the word of the New Testament rather than the word of millennialist theologians.

We begin with sinful Israel:	Whosoever therefore shall be ashamed of Me and of My words in this adulterous and sinful generation; of him shall the Son of man be ashamed, when He shall come in His own glory, and in His Father's, and of the holy angels; and then He shall reward every man according to his works. Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in His kingdom with power. When the Son of man shall come in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then shall He sit upon the throne of His glory: Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed Me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of His glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.	We end with sinful Israel.
All of this happened in the 1st century, Biblically speaking

Matthew 16:27 For the Son of Man is about to come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and then He will reward each according to his works. 28 Assuredly, I say to you, there are some standing here who shall not taste death till they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom.”

Mark 8:38-9:1 38 For whoever is ashamed of Me and My words in this adulterous and sinful generation, of him the Son of Man also will be ashamed when He comes in the glory of His Father with the holy angels.” 9:1 And He said to them, “Assuredly, I say to you that there are some standing here who will not taste death till they see the kingdom of God present with power.”

Luke 9:26 For whoever is ashamed of Me and My words, of him the Son of Man will be ashamed when He comes in His own glory, and in His Father’s, and of the holy angels. 27 But I tell you truly, there are some standing here who shall not taste death till they see the kingdom of God.”

Matthew 25:31 “When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the holy angels with Him, then He will sit on the throne of His glory.

Matthew 19:28 So Jesus said to them, “Assuredly I say to you, that in the regeneration, when the Son of Man sits on the throne of His glory, you who have followed Me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

The violations done to Scripture by this endeavor are grievous indeed; but, beyond that, there is a Scripturally impeccable futurist fulfillment that is approaching at warp speed, and Preterists had best turn their eschatological telescopes around so they can see what is right on top of them rather than steadily looking backwards thru the wrong end to 70 AD. Unless they have been living in caves, they know that a One World Government--A GLOBAL GOVERNMENT, NOT A REGIONAL 70 AD ROMAN GOVERNMENT--has been touted by world leaders and academics everywhere for years as both inevitable and imminent. It is no Scriptural accident that just such a global government was prophesied over 1900 years ago in the Bible (Rev.13:7; 17:12-18;etc.). It is still future to this moment, as is The Fall of Babylon, the Trumpet Plagues, the Mark of the Beast, Satan’s “little season”, Jesus coming in the clouds to carry out promised resurrections ( I Thess.4:13-18; John 5:28,29), the destruction and disappearance of this old earth (II Pet. 3: 10-13 [Gr. for “melt” is “liquefy”], Rev.20:11; the establishment of the promised New Earth right here where the old one was (Isaiah 65:17; 66;22; II Peter 3:10-13; Rev.21:1; etc.), to be the dwelling of God with man eternally (Rev.21:3)....

The question is not whether a One World Government is being built in the 21st century; the question is whether a book written in the 1st century is talking about events that must "shortly come to pass," or about events in the 21st century.

All of the Bible verses listed below are calculated to appeal to Americans who are victims of Educational Malpractice. Most people don't know how the Bible uses these phrases, and all they've ever heard about these phrases comes from televangelists and eschatological hucksters (and I'm not saying that the author of the article at left is a huckster, only that he's following humanistic trends rather than Biblical patterns).

I find the preterist interpretation of each of these passages more satisfying because more Biblical. The Bible as a whole teaches about the destruction of Israel in the 1st century A.D., and the promises of a New Heavens/New Earth to the Church. What is needed is not boasting about "our" theory vs. "their" theory, but to develop the spirit of the Bereans who "searched the Scriptures daily," perhaps over months or even years, to find the truth.

Those listening to the Preterit interpretation urgently need FIRST: To find out why their model is demonstrably unsound Scripturally. SECOND: They need to be thankful to their leaders for demonstrating the Scriptural unsoundness of the Dispensationalist-Millennialist views, but immediately reject their dogma that there is no correct futurist interpretation. THIRD: They need to prayerfully check out the Scriptural evidence that locks down a futurist interpretation of all pertinent passages in a way that brings an end to both Preteritism and Dispensational-Millennialism.

Go HERE to order: The Preterit View: Straining At A Gnat And Swallowing A Camel: