Subj: Re: The Life and Times of Judge Roy Moore by William L. Anderson 
Date: 2/17/2004 9:54:01 AM Central Standard Time
From: KEVIN4VFT
To: goc640626@webtv.net


I will comment as I read.
(As I review the letter, I see the formatting
differences between Anderson's article and
my comments is being obscured. Sorry.
Hope you can follow the exchange.)

In a message dated 2/15/2004 1:58:05 PM Central Standard Time,
William L. Anderson writes:

The Life and Times of Judge Roy Moore



by
William L. Anderson





[intro snipped]

I do believe that while the former judge has raised some important issues, in the end he is hardly better than his political opponents.



Roy Moore no better than ACLU.
That will be a tough thesis to defend.


Before going further, however, let us recount why Moore suddenly has become the man that people in the church basements want to draft for the government’s chief executive. Several years ago, Moore was an obscure state judge in Etowah County, Alabama, who became famous by posting the Ten Commandments on the wall behind his courtroom bench.




Name one state judge in the entire state of Alabama
who is not "obscure." What does Anderson think
Moore should have been doing differently before he posted
the Ten Commandments in his courtroom?


Of course, all sophisticated Americans know that the placing of the Ten Commandments on a state courtroom wall is what the framers of the U.S. Constitution meant when they wrote in the First Amendment that "Congress shall make no law" regarding the establishment of religion. Granted, Moore was a state judge, not "Congress," but the ACLU swears that is what the First Amendment really means and the federal courts have agreed. For that matter, putting the Ten Commandments on a courtroom wall does not establish anything, but no matter, federal judges have spoken, and their message is that nothing shall be permitted to go before the Great God of Secularism that Congress, the executive branch, and the courts have determined to be the True State Religion. So much for the "establishment" clause.



I like that paragraph!



Having become famous for his brief stand against the ACLU, Moore parlayed that fame into being elected chief justice in Alabama, promising during his campaign that the Ten Commandments would be placed in the Supreme Court building in Montgomery. Alabama voters agreed with his stance and put him in office, thus setting up the inevitable train wreck with the ACLU, Southern Poverty Law Center, and the editorial page of the New York Times, which considers itself to be the "conscience" of Alabama.

Not surprisingly, Moore lost the showdown (that he knew all along he would lose). During the litigation period and the ruckus that followed, however, Moore lost all of the brief opportunity to raise the real Constitutional issues in this matter.




OK, I'm on the edge of my seat waiting to hear what the
"real" issues were.

While he declared (rightly) that the federal courts do not have jurisdiction over what a state judge places in the lobby of the state Supreme Court building, he quickly passed over that line of reasoning to insist that the governments of Alabama and the United States of America must openly acknowledge "Almighty God." Thus, he basically gave the ACLU exactly what it wanted, as he tossed yet another can of gasoline into the cauldron of what we call the Culture War.



Did I miss the "real issue" that Moore lost his
opportunity to defend?


In other words, Moore’s Ten Commandments episode is not so much about law as it is about cultural dominance. Yet, the survival of what is left of our nation’s heritage of liberty is not so much a matter of culture as it is of law itself, and its purpose. Let me explain.



I guess what Anderson is saying is that Moore should
NOT have claimed that the government has a DUTY to
acknowledge God.

I am a defender of Christian Cultural Dominance,
albeit not with the confiscated wealth of others,
and not by threats of violence or force.
To say that America is a nation "Under God" is
to say that God is OVER America, which is to
speak of "cultural *dominance*."

Now as an anarchist I'm no friend of using the
machinery of organized violence to achieve
cultural dominance, but those who created
the machinery of the State (the Founding
Fathers) DID believe that, and the arguments
of the ACLU that using government to achieve
cultural dominance is "unconstitutional" are
historically and legally inaccurate. The Framers
believed that the State as a nation (not merely
as individuals, or as "the People," but the
government itself) had a duty to worship God:

http://members.aol.com/EndTheWall/duty.htm


There are two important historical aspects of U.S. law that have been overlooked – or deliberately buried, take your choice. The first is the federalist system of the assignment of limited powers to the various governing bodies of this country, both at the national and state levels. These divisions were supposed to act as checks against the accumulation of too much power by one branch of government.

The majority of the U.S. Constitution’s framers (except for Alexander Hamilton and his followers) clearly did not want the nationalization of all law in this country, as they believed it ultimately would lead to tyranny. Thus, they would equally have abhorred the sweeping judgments of the U.S. Supreme Court and the creation of a vast number of federal crimes that in substance are works of fiction.



I Agree.
I think Moore would agree as well.



The second aspect of U.S. law was (and I emphasize was) its genesis in the Rights of Englishmen as outlined by the great British jurist, William Blackstone. American colonists rebelled against the Crown in 1776 precisely because they believed that the British government was violating those precious rights and they no longer wished to live under what they believed to be a tyrannical regime.

Blackstone described law as a "shield" that protected the innocent both from predators and from an overreaching state. Law was to be a limiting force upon government, not a license to kill, intimidate, and dominate. (The motto of the U.S. Transportation Security Administration’s air marshal program is "Dominate, Intimidate, Control," and that seems to be the motto for the rest of government in this country, as well.)

In subsequent public appearances since his removal from the Alabama bench, Moore has not contradicted the legal trends that have centralized power in this country and made a mockery of our liberties. Yes, as noted before, he briefly declared the federal government to have no jurisdiction over the placing of the Ten Commandments in the state court building, but his main message has been the need for governments at all levels in this country to acknowledge "Almighty God."




Blackstone would not have disagreed with Moore on the
need for government to be "under God." Moore was a
fairly obsessive student of Blackstone.

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=34192

The defense of the "rights of Englishmen" was an explicitly
Christian endeavor. When Sam Adams formed the "Committees
of Correspondence," the network that fuled the American
Revolution, he stated its purpose as defining "the rights of
the Colonists as men, as Christians, and as subjects."

http://history.hanover.edu/texts/adamss.html

http://members.aol.com/endthewall/ChristianArmy.htm

"Englishmen" were Christian. The two were virtually
synonymous.




Furthermore, I have not been aware of any speech he has made since being removed in which he ha
s decried the expansion of federal law, both criminal and civil.




I'm not aware of any such speech either, but I find it entirely
plausible that Judge Moore would decry the expansion of
federal law.






He has praised the "partial birth abortion" law recently passed by Congress as to be consistent with his legal worldview, despite the fact that the new "law" misrepresen

ts and abuses the Constitution’s "Interstate Commerce" clause.

Bad example. Factually and Constitutionally accurate but it
misses an important moral issue. Imagine that slavery had not
been abolished but states had passed laws prohibiting the
killing of slaves deemed "rebellious" by their owners. Then
imagine that the U.S. Supreme struck down these laws on
the grounds that they infringed on the property rights of the
owners. For this decision to stick presupposes a state of
constitutional infirmity such as existed in 1973 when the
federal judiciary trumped abortion laws in the states. Thirty
years later (and 30 million dead slaves later) Congress
gathers up some moral gumption in the face of
an out-of-control court to pass a federal la
w prohibiting the
killing of slaves. The constitution by now is dead meat.
Protesting Congressional action against an obvious evil
by complaining about the violation of some constitutional
technicality strikes me as pharisaical.


 



He has not, however, spoken out against the clearly unconstitutional War on Drugs that has given governments at all levels awesome powers to arrest people, grab private property, and make our state and national prison systems the largest in the world. 



So has William Anderson been in contact with Judge Moore
to set him straight? At one time Judge Jim Grey supported
the war on drugs, but now opposes it and is a libertarian. Is
this article going to gently nudge Judge Moore in the right
direction? (It might, but I get the feeling it wasn't designed t
o.)





Nor has the good former judge said anything about the continuing trend to make federal crimes out of innocuous acts, thus creating an entire nation of federal criminals.



I don't have time to examine the Moore corpus, but it
wouldn't surprise me if he had spoken out in this way.


This is not surprising. Moore believes that drugs are bad, so there should be no limits as to what governments can do to stop people from selling, purchasing, and taking drugs, even if it means eviscerating the "Rights of Englishmen" in the process.



No limits? A bit of an overstatement.



Indeed, if I have heard anything from Moore and his followers, it has been that governments are not authoritarian enough.




Silly. Compare Moore and his followers with Moore's oponents

(e.g., Southern Poverty Law Center, ACLU). Which group more
closely resembles the Founding Fathers?







In the end, Moore is no better than his political opponents, for both are following the same authoritarian legal theories (if one can dignify their views by calling them "theories").



Moore is pretty closely following Blackstone.
Both are pretty authoritarian in my opinion.
But both keep the State "under God." The
ACLU believes in a messianic state that
thinks it IS god. Moore is clearly better than
his political opponents.


If Moore cannot have his way, then the next step is martyrdom. Of course, Moore is not a real martyr, for I suspect that his income, fame, and mobility have increased with his actions, unlike the real martyrs of the Christian faith, who have suffered deprivation, torture and death for their unpopular beliefs.



Our word "martyr" comes from the Greek for "witness."
Moore is a witness against a state that seeks to usurp
the place of God. If he's not a "martyr" in the more modern
sense of one who loses everything - life, fortune and "sacred
honor" - he has certainly been a victim of persecution. He
deserves more credit that Anderson gives him.



In his brief battle with the ACLU and the federal courts, Moore had an opportunity to remind all of us of our lost liberties and to help rekindle the federalism debate that supposedly was settled with the ratification of the U.S. Constitution in 1787. Instead, we received yet another nauseating version of the intractable and unwinnable Culture War. I am not sure whether Americans in this day and age deserve anything better, but it would have been a wonderful and educational moment had Moore dealt with the real issues of law and justice. Instead, he took the money and ate fried chicken.

February 9, 2004



I don't get the chicken reference, either here or at the
beginning of the article. If the "culture war" is intractable
and unwinnable, then no battle is winnable. If we can't
decide who is God -- God or the State -- then all
other battles will be lost. The State will take everything.




Well, with this and the previous links I sent,
you've probably gotten more about Roy Moore
than you bargained for. Hope you found it
somewhat stimulating.






Kevin Craig
http://VFT.isCool.net/
---------------------------------------------

And they shall beat their swords into plowshares
and sit under their Vine & Fig Tree.
Micah 4:1-7