Reconsidering the Scriptures
| A Biblical Study Designed for Full-Preterists | A Biblical Response Designed for Partial-Preterists |
By Steve Lehrer |
By Kevin Craig |
4/10/2004 |
4/17/2004 |
| Teacher and Biblical Counselor for In-Depth Studies | Editor of the Journal of New Covenant Theology | Wavering Partial-Preterist, toes in the shallow end, unable to jump all the way into Full Preterism. Not an expert, just a Berean. |
A short readable study I designed for Full Preterists - It is meant to aid the Full Preterist in critical thinking about some of the key passages and to lead him away from that doctrinal point of view. |
I am a 90% Full Preterist. I am a 100% Full Preterist in practice, but I was raised believing in a future Second Coming, Resurrection, and Last Judgment, and can't bring myself to say in theory that there won't be a resurrection someday. But those theories have no effect on my day-to-day practice in this life. Nor should they. |
I have been a student of Scripture for quite some time and there are still many passages that I am puzzled by and many more that I wish I had a better handle on. Nowhere have I been so humbled by limits of my knowledge and the limits of my ability to comprehend as when I have grappled with issues surrounding the “end-times.” In my study of preterism, I have been blessed with many new insights into several passages. But despite these insights for which I am thankful, I have been troubled by many of the conclusions drawn by full-preterism (FP). I desire FPs to wrestle with the same texts that I have wrestled with as I have examined FP in the light of Scripture. I want them to ask themselves the same tough questions that I have had to ask myself. Therefore, I have developed this short study for FPs to challenge them to ask the tough questions and to reconsider the Scriptures. |
I would like to lead
partial preterists more toward Full Preterism. I have found that Full Preterism opens many
doors to important insights. I have read Russell's Parousia several times, and
each time I do I walk away with new insights and a thousand more questions. I find most arguments against Full Preterism to be weak at best, and hypocritically arrogant and dangerous at worst. As one who hasn't yet been able to bite the bullet and join the Full Preterist camp, I am particularly sensitive to bad arguments from partial preterists. Steve Lehrer has a much better attitude than those who say partial preterists should not even discuss the issues with full preterists. I would like to honor this by answering his questions. |
| This passage concerns the “coming” of Christ. The coming of Christ in judgment is being compared to God’s coming in judgment in the days of Noah. Full-preterism (FP) presupposes that the judgment of Christ spoken of in this passage occurred in 70 A.D. Therefore, typically FPs take the judgment language concerning the flood literally and the judgment language concerning fire figuratively. Therefore FPs must come up with a consist and well-reasoned interpretation of this passage that explains why one can interpret one part of the passage literally and one part figuratively. | I do not take the language concerning the flood literally. This is because I have always taken the language of "destruction of the elements" literally. I have always believed this passage taught a future destruction of the planet -- the complete annihilation of this terrestrial ball, as in a nuclear holocaust. I now take a Full Preterist view of this passage, so I don't believe the passage is talking about a future (or even a preterist [past]) destruction of the protons, neutrons, and electrons ("elements") that make up planet earth. But even if I did believe in the future destruction of the planet, I would have to admit that the planet's protons, neutrons, and electrons were not destroyed in the Flood. The Flood did not literally destroy the planet. |
1
Dear friends, this is now my second letter to you. I have written both of them as reminders to stimulate you to wholesome thinking. 2I want you to recall the words spoken in the past by the holy prophets and the command given by our Lord and Savior through your apostles. 3First of all, you must understand that in the last days scoffers will come, scoffing and following their own evil desires. 4They will say, "Where is this 'coming' he promised? Ever since our fathers died, everything goes on as it has since the beginning of creation." 5But they deliberately forget that long ago by God's word the heavens existed and the earth was formed out of water and by water. 6By these waters also the world of that time was deluged and destroyed. 7By the same word the present heavens and earth are reserved for fire, being kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men. 8But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day. 9The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance. 10But the day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a roar; the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and everything in it will be laid bare. 11Since everything will be destroyed in this way, what kind of people ought you to be? You ought to live holy and godly lives 12as you look forward to the day of God and speed its coming. That day will bring about the destruction of the heavens by fire, and the elements will melt in the heat. 13But in keeping with his promise we are looking forward to a new heaven and a new earth, the home of righteousness. 14So then, dear friends, since you are looking forward to this, make every effort to be found spotless, blameless and at peace with him.
| The same or similar words in close context to one another often have the same or similar meaning. In fact, they always do, unless there is some contextual reason to take the meaning another direction. Consider this as you answer the questions below. | On the other hand, a person who comes to a text with a preconceived idea will often refuse to see "contextual" reasons to find different meanings which might counter his preconceived idea. |
| In verse 5 are the words “water” and “earth” meant to be taken figuratively or literally? | Literally, but God created fire and water to convey spiritual or typological meanings. These things are not "random" or meaningless. [example] |
| In verse 6 are the words “destroyed” and “world” meant to be taken figuratively or literally? | Figuratively. The planet was left standing
after the Flood. In the days when I interpreted 2 Peter 3 futuristically, I always
believed that the planet would not be left standing after all the elements were burned up
in a future discontinuous event. 2 Peter 2:5 And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly; The world of the ungodly was destroyed, but not Noah's world. In what sense was the flood not brought upon Noah's "world?" In what sense was Noah's world not destroyed? Same planet, same obligation to offer sacrifices (Gen. 8:20). The only difference was Noah was no longer vexed by the ungodly. The same thing can be said of Christians vis-a-vis the apostate Jews after AD70. John 15:19-25 If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you. The planet earth, considered as a huge ball of "natural resources," does not hate Christians. It was not destroyed. |
| In verse 7 is the word “earth” meant to be taken figuratively or literally? | "Heavens and earth," I have learned, is usually not to be taken in an astronomical sense, but in a socio-spiritual sense, a way of speaking about an entire culture or religion-based society. So I would answer this question "figuratively," although the society or "world" being referred to here was literally (or "really" "truly") destroyed. |
| In verse 10 are the words “fire” “destroyed” and “earth” meant to be taken figuratively or literally? | How about the word "heaven" in
v.10? How can heaven be destroyed by fire? It's a vacuum. This cannot be literal or astronomical. Lift up your eyes to the heavens, and look upon the earth beneath: for the heavens
shall vanish away like smoke, and the earth shall wax old like a garment, and they that
dwell therein shall die in like manner: but my salvation shall be for ever, and my
righteousness shall not be abolished. Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon
shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the
heavens shall be shaken: I believe Isaiah's prophecy was fulfilled long ago, and Matt.24:29 was fulfilled in AD70. Once I crossed that bridge, seeing 2 Peter 3 fulfilled at the same time was no challenge. |
| In verse 13 is the word “earth” meant to be taken figuratively or literally? | "Earth" in v. 13 does not mean "planet." It's better translated by "New World Order" -- pity that the phrase has been co-opted by Bush I and his U.N. ilk. Peter was not telling his readers to look for God's promised new planet. God never promised a new planet. What God promised, as John Owen pointed out, was in Isaiah 65. I believe we are there. |
| If you are giving different answers to these questions, what within the context of this passage or book allows you to do so? | The fact that the planet was not destroyed by the flood, only the "world" of the unbelievers. (But I concede that this fact is not exactly "in this text" but is brought to the text from Genesis.) |
| If the FP interpretation of this passage is correct and the change from the Old Covenant to the New Covenant is in view, once that change has occurred does this exhortation to live holy and godly lives (v.11) still apply to us today after 70 A.D. and if so, on what biblical basis? | We are not living holy and Godly lives looking forward to AD70, we are living holy and Godly lives looking backward to the Cross and the Redemption that Christ gave the Church. |
| In this passage Paul is contrasting believers with unbelievers. The key point of contrast is the work of the Holy Spirit that causes the believer to live for Christ rather than follow his sinful desires. In these verses Paul speaks makes a comparison between the raising of Christ from the dead and the Spirit giving “life to your (believers’) mortal bodies.” The problem this passage poses for FPs is that Paul seems to be revealing a promise that believers will be physically resurrected, just as Christ was physically resurrected. | I don't believe that believers will be resurrected
"just as Christ was physically resurrected," and I'll bet Steve Lehrer doesn't
either. The scars of crucifixion were visible on Jesus' resurrected body, His hands and
His side (John 20:25-27). Will the victim of a violent stabbing spend eternity with the
scars on his face? My aunt died of breast cancer. Will she live for eternity with the
scars of her mastectomy? There are certainly limits to "just as Christ was physically
resurrected." I've had preachers paint the most glorious details of resurrection
life, none of which have any scriptural warrant, and when I ask questions or point out
that those details are not found in Scripture, I'm accused of destroying "the hope of
believers." The problem this passage poses for futurists (and hundreds of other New Testament passages) is that Paul seems to be revealing that the coming, the resurrection, and the judgment will occur within the lifetime of those who read his letters. |
9You, however, are controlled not by the sinful nature but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ. 10But if Christ is in you, your body is dead because of sin, yet your spirit is alive because of righteousness. 11And if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through his Spirit, who lives in you.
| What does it mean in verse 11 for Christ to be raised from the dead (Is it a reference to physical/bodily resurrection)? | Christ was physically raised from the dead. |
| What does it mean for us to be “given life to (our) mortal bodies”? | Therefore we are buried with him by baptism
into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father,
even so we also should walk in newness of life. Knowing this, that our old man is
crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not
serve sin. Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto
God through Jesus Christ our Lord. Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that
ye should obey it in the lusts thereof. Neither yield ye your members as instruments of
unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the
dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God. (Romans 6:4,6,11,12-13) always carrying about in the body the dying of the Lord Jesus, that the life of Jesus also may be manifested in our body. For we who live are always delivered to death for Jesus' sake, that the life of Jesus also may be manifested in our mortal flesh. So then death is working in us, but life in you. (2 Corinthians 4:10-12) |
| This giving of life is yet future (notice the verb “will”) while the presence of the Spirit of God is in spoken of in the present tense. It would seem that this giving of life to the mortal body cannot refer simply to spiritual life. Is there any relationship between Christ being raised from the dead (11a) and the giving of life to mortal bodies (11b)? | The relationship between Christ's resurrection from the dead and our new life is not that they are the same thing, but that the Holy Spirit gives both. |
| How are they similar and how are they different? | Christ did not have to "put to
death" His "old man." But by His death and resurrection He gave us the power to put the old man to death. even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (Ephesians 2:5) |
| How did you arrive at your conclusions? | I studied all the occurrences in Scripture of "mortal body" and "put to death" and "raised with Christ." |
| FP teaches that we are now in the new heavens and the new earth. We are now in what Scripture calls “the age to come.” In this passage Paul gives hope to Christians who were experiencing trials that they have glory that will be revealed in them in the future at some point. That revelation of glory includes a liberation of creation from decay and the adoption as sons and redemption of the bodies of believers. This is something Paul was looking forward to experiencing and exhorting believers to do the same. FPs must wrestle with what exactly Paul was hoping for if it wasn’t a physical resurrection. | The "trials" which believers were
experiencing came at the hands of wicked Jews. The hope of believers was for these wicked
Jews either to convert and repudiate their war against their Messiah, or to be destroyed.
The "present sufferings" which believers suffered ended when apostate Israel was destroyed. Covenantally speaking, the entire creation rose up and cut them off out of the land. It is impossible, covenantally speaking, to exaggerate the cosmic relief of the creation at their destruction. (Genesis 4:10; 18:20; Isaiah 5:7; Matthew 23:35; Heb. 12:24-25) Revelation 11:8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified. "I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory that is about to be revealed to us." (Rom. 8:18) |
18I consider that our present sufferings are not worth comparing with the glory that will be revealed in us. 19The creation waits in eager expectation for the sons of God to be revealed. 20For the creation was subjected to frustration, not by its own choice, but by the will of the one who subjected it, in hope 21that the creation itself will be liberated from its bondage to decay and brought into the glorious freedom of the children of God. 22We know that the whole creation has been groaning as in the pains of childbirth right up to the present time. 23Not only so, but we ourselves, who have the first fruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies. 24For in this hope we were saved. But hope that is seen is no hope at all. Who hopes for what he already has? 25But if we hope for what we do not yet have, we wait for it patiently.
| Has the creation been liberated from the bondage to decay and the frustration it was subjected to in Genesis 3 at the fall? | Yes. Genesis 3 was the result of the First
Adam, whose work was undone by the Second Adam. "Joy to the
World, the Lord is come. Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, He also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death He might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil; And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage. (Hebrews 2:14-15) Deuteronomy 28 suggests that the curse is lifted as we grow into the stature of Christ. "Bondage" also meant the Judaizers (Gal 4:24; 5:1). "Corruption" speaks of life without the Spirit (Gal 6:8; Col. 2:20-22 ["perish" = "come to corruption," same word as Rom. 8:21]; 2 Peter 1:4 [believers already escaped corruption]; 2 Pet 2:12) |
| In Romans 8:15 and Ephesians 1:5 the idea of believers being adopted as sons seems to be something given at conversion. Yet in Romans 8:23 it seems to be a future blessing Paul was hoping in. How do you explain this? | How do YOU explain this? How does anyone
who believes in the doctrine of adoption spelled out in ch.12 of the Westminster
Confession explain this? Why would anyone living after the Cross have to wait for
adoption? This problem is by no means unique to full preterists. Romans 8:15 is clearly in
the context of this passage. The full preterist answer is that in some sense or many senses adoption/redemption had not yet been fully applied to believers while the temple still stood. "The Holy Spirit is signifying this, that the way of the [heavenly] Holy Places has not yet been revealed, while the outer tabernacle is still standing, which is a symbol for the present time. Accordingly both gifts and sacrifices are offered which cannot make the worshiper perfect in conscience, since they relate only to food and drink and various washings, regulations for the body imposed until a time of reformation." (Heb. 9:8-10; Compare Gal. 4:19; Eph. 2:21-22; 3:17; 4:13) Luke 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh. Ephesians 1:5 says adoption was predestined, but not necessarily applied. "Not for [Abraham's] sake only was it written, that [faith] was reckoned to him [as righteousness], but for our sake also, to whom it is about to be reckoned." (Rom. 4:23-24) |
| What exactly was Paul hoping for and waiting for—what is the redemption of the body/ the adoption as a son (v. 23) that Paul and the rest of the Christians did not have at the time of the writing of the book of Romans? | I may not be able to explain everything, but this has been made clear by Russell and others: "Paul and the rest of the Christians . . . at the time of the writing of the book of Romans" believed that what they waited for would come in their lifetime. They had clear warrant from Jesus to believe this. Either Jesus and the Apostles were correct to be thus waiting, or they were wrong. I believe they were right, and that means it happened when they thought it would happen. |
| Paul has just finished rebuking the Corinthians for their self-centered practice of the Lord’s Supper and in these verses he recounts the Lord’s words concerning what the supper is to be about. The FP must grapple with his practice of the Lord’s supper in the light of verse 26 and the reference to the “coming” of the Lord. | "The Lord's Supper" was the observation of the Old Covenant passover. I have no problem not observing Passover after the destruction of the temple in AD70. |
23For I received from the Lord what I also passed on to you: The Lord Jesus, on the night he was betrayed, took bread, 24and when he had given thanks, he broke it and said, "This is my body, which is for you; do this in remembrance of me." 25In the same way, after supper he took the cup, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in my blood; do this, whenever you drink it, in remembrance of me." 26For whenever you eat this bread and drink this cup, you proclaim the Lord's death until he comes.
| In verse 26 Paul writes that we are to practice the Lord’s supper “until he comes.” | Yes, that means the coming He said would be within the lifetime of those who were His eye-witnesses (Matthew 16:27-28). |
| When will or did the “coming” that is referred to in this verse take place? | I can't answer that exactly, and Scripture presents the coming of the Kingdom in different ways, from different perspectives. But by the time the temple was destroyed in AD70, the time for observing the Old Covenant Passover had expired. |
| What are the implications of this statement for your practice of this ordinance if the “coming” spoken about here happened in 70 A.D.? | I don't believe in the ordinances of "baptism" (as a ritual of ceremonial cleansing by water) or "the Lord's Table" (as an observance of the Passover Feast). |
| Since the day of the Lord or the coming of Christ is uniquely understood in FP to refer primarily and finally to 70 A.D., Paul’s prayer for the church at Philippi poses potential problems for that theological viewpoint. | Paul's prayer for believers at Philippi presupposes something that would happen to them, not to believers 2,000 years in the future. |
3
I thank my God every time I remember you. 4In all my prayers for all of you, I always pray with joy 5because of your partnership in the gospel from the first day until now, 6being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus. 7It is right for me to feel this way about all of you, since I have you in my heart; for whether I am in chains or defending and confirming the gospel, all of you share in God's grace with me. 8God can testify how I long for all of you with the affection of Christ Jesus. 9And this is my prayer: that your love may abound more and more in knowledge and depth of insight, 10so that you may be able to discern what is best and may be pure and blameless until the day of Christ, 11filled with the fruit of righteousness that comes through Jesus Christ--to the glory and praise of God.
| When is or was the day of Christ Jesus that Paul refers to in verses 6 and 10? | "The Lord is at hand."
(Philippians 4:5) Russell has a table of all the occurrences of "that day," "the day of the Lord," "the day of Christ," etc., beginning on page 248. The Bible teaches that that Great Day would occur within the lifetime of those who wrote and read those words. |
| What will happen or happened on that day? | Many things happened, and they may not have happened in one 24-hour period that we call a "day." |
| If the day was in the past, has God “completed the good work” he began in you? | If I die before "the day of Christ," will some good work be uncompleted in me? |
| What is the “good work” that Paul is referring to? | Believers before AD70 longed to be relieved
of Jewish persecution, and their good work of patience culminated in their deliverance
through God's destruction of their adversaries. And in nothing terrified by your adversaries: which is to them an evident token of perdition, but to you of salvation, and that of God. (Philippians 1:28) Does this mean God is not working another different work in me, which He shall complete in His good time? |
| Why does Paul pray for the believers be pure and blameless only until the “day of Christ”? | And without offence. Because this is how they were to respond to Jewish persecution. (Acts 24:16; 1 Cor. 10:32; 1 Pet 2:19-20) |
| 1 Timothy 6:14-15 says something very similar but rather than “day of Christ”, Paul writes “until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ.” Is Paul’s exhortation in 1 Timothy referring to the same day as the “day of Christ” and did Christ “appear” in 70 A.D.? | Paul did not say "keep this commandment without spot until you die," he said "keep this commandment without spot until the appearing of our Lord," which is just one of many examples of Apostolic belief that the coming would be before that generation died out. |
| FP denies that Scripture teaches that there will be a general physical/bodily resurrection in the future. In light of this, Paul’s hope of attaining a “resurrection” in Philippians 3:10-11 should be challenging for FPs to interpret in a consistent and coherent fashion. | FP does not deny a general resurrection in
the past, so Paul's hope is not shattered in the least by Full Preterism: For our citizenship is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself. (Philippians 3:20-21) "The words assume . . . his surviving to witness the coming of the Lord." -- Alford's Greek Testament |
10I want to know Christ and the power of his resurrection and the fellowship of sharing in his sufferings, becoming like him in his death, 11and so, somehow, to attain to the resurrection from the dead.
| What exactly is Paul hoping to attain (examine the meaning of “resurrection” and “dead” in this context) and when does/will he attain it? | Paul is hoping to attain the power
of His resurrection (not necessarily the exact same resurrection Christ experienced). "Somehow" is a word I frequently use when people ask, "How is this prophecy fulfilled in the Preterist scheme?" "Exactly" is not a word we're equipped to answer in the context of resurrection. When Isaiah said a virgin shall conceive, he probably did not understand his words as well as we do. Likewise, Paul may not have known "exactly" what was going to happen. |
| One of the biggest differences between FPs and non-FPs is our understanding about what Scripture teaches regarding the “body” and the change that is said to take place at some point in the future. FP does not believe that Scripture teaches that there will be physical change in the bodies of believers. Non-FPs believe that Scripture teaches that both Christ experienced a physical/bodily transformation and that all believers will also experience such a physical bodily change at the time of his, yet future, coming. This passage that speaks of “bodily” change seems to be at odds with FP and therefore is a challenging passage for adherents of that theological point of view to interpret. |
20But our citizenship is in heaven. And we eagerly await a Savior from there, the Lord Jesus Christ, 21who, by the power that enables him to bring everything under his control, will transform our lowly bodies so that they will be like his glorious body.
| What exactly does Paul mean when he says Christ “will transform our lowly bodies”? How will our “lowly bodies” be like “Christ’s glorious body”? | It doesn't say "our bodies," plural, it says
"our body," singular. This is an example of one of the most important departures
from Scripture made by futurists. Futurists tend to be very ME-centered, where the Bible
speaks collectively of Christians as a body. Futurists ignore believers in Communist
China, ignore building the Kingdom, ignore the future of the entire creation, and focus on
"my new body," "my heavenly destiny," and a life of pampered
individualist luxury in heaven. Romans 12:5 So we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another. The body of Christ was at this point in a state of humiliation, waiting for redemption, persecuted by "enemies of the cross" (verse 18). Colossians 2:16-17 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: {17} Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ. Colossians 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence. |
| When did/will this happen? | Jesus taught that all these events would happen within the lifetime of those then living. Paul trusted Christ on this point. I do too, so it must have happened when Christ and the Apostles said it would. |
| Is your body already like “Christ’s glorious body” in a way that Paul’s body and the bodies of those he was writing to were not? | The question is whether the Body of Christ (the Church) is like Christ's glorious body in a way the Church was not before the destruction of the temple. I would say yes, the Church is more like Christ today than it was when Paul wrote the Philippians. It's easy to find fault with the Church today; much easier than being grateful. |
| This text is a crux interpretum for FP. I believe this is the clearest text that speaks about the manner of a “coming” of Christ. If the expected 2nd coming of Christ is being spoken about here, the text seems to imply that the physical body of Christ will be seen descending in the same visible manner that the disciples had just seen him ascend. | Christ was not seen ascending with armies of saints, and the event was witnessed by a handful of confused apostles, not the entire world. Futurists will undoubtedly find other verses which describe the second coming in much grander terms than the Apostles saw in Acts 1, which is fine, but where's the proof that these things did not happen in AD70? |
9After he said this, he was taken up before their very eyes, and a cloud hid him from their sight. 10They were looking intently up into the sky as he was going, when suddenly two men dressed in white stood beside them. 11"Men of Galilee," they said, "why do you stand here looking into the sky? This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen him go into heaven."
| Is this text referring to the “coming of Christ” at 70 A.D.? | Yes. |
| If so, how did He come back “in the same way you have seen him go into heaven”? | The parallels are much greater between Acts 1 and AD 70
than the parallels between Acts 1 and Hal Lindsey's Second Coming fiction. The physical
description of Christ's Ascension in Acts 1 is downright boring compared to modern
futurist apocalypticism. A physical description of Christ's return in AD70 might be seen
(or unseen) as equally boring. An accurate theological
description of Acts 1 is much more exciting, as is a theological
description of the Second Coming in AD 70. Here is Daniel's theological description of
Luke's history in Acts 1:
Did anyone see all this? Does that mean it didn't happen? Similarly, we have in many New Testament passages a theological description of what "actually" happened in AD70. These theological descriptions were never intended to be HalLindseyized. |
| If not, what “coming” is this text referring to? Consider 1 Thessalonians 4:16 and 17 (where the Lord Jesus himself is said to descend from Heaven) in your answer. | How does 1 Thes. 4 describe Christ coming "in the same way" the disciples saw Him leave? If the going was the same as the coming in 1 Thes 4, but the disciples didn't see it, then how can you prove that 1 Thes 4 didn't occur in AD 70? |
| Many FPs understand the resurrection of the dead to refer to spiritual resurrection or God giving spiritual life to his people. Yet in the FP timeline this giving of life did not really happen until 70 A.D. | Not that it didn't "really" happen until AD70, but that by then it had "fully" happened. |
| This passage certainly talks about spiritual death and life. It even uses resurrection language in verse 6 (“raised us up”). But it seems as if Paul writes about this spiritual resurrection as already having happened to those who believe (prior to 70 A.D.). | It also obviously happened before any futurist's Second Coming. |
1As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins, 2in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient. 3All of us also lived among them at one time, gratifying the cravings of our sinful nature[1] and following its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature objects of wrath. 4But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, 5made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions--it is by grace you have been saved. 6And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus, 7in order that in the coming ages he might show the incomparable riches of his grace, expressed in his kindness to us in Christ Jesus.
| Is this text referring to spiritual resurrection that was occurring before 70 A.D.? | Clearly. Are you agreeing that some form of resurrection occurred before AD70? Doesn't that make you a Hymanaean? :-) |
| How is this possible, and how does that impact your understanding of Philippians 3:10-11, 20-21? | How is it possible for resurrections to happen before AD70? With God, all things are possible. There were many resurrections before AD 70, e.g., Matthew 27:52-53. This does not shake preterists at all. The point is that by AD70 all that Jesus had predicted would occur did in fact occur, and was not postponed 2,000 years. |
FP teaches that the revelation of God’s judgment that occurred in 70 A.D. was “the end of the age” and since then we have been in what Scripture calls “the age to come.” The problem is that this passage seems to teach that the end of the age coincides with world judgment at which time all unbelievers will be swept off into hell and the world will only be populated by those who truly love God. This interpretation is clearly at odds with FP and therefore it would seem that FPs must find another convincing way to interpret this text. |
24Jesus told them another parable: "The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field. 25But while everyone was sleeping, his enemy came and sowed weeds among the wheat, and went away. 26When the wheat sprouted and formed heads, then the weeds also appeared.
27"The owner's servants came to him and said, 'Sir, didn't you sow good seed in your field? Where then did the weeds come from?'
28" 'An enemy did this,' he replied.
"The servants asked him, 'Do you want us to go and pull them up?'
29" 'No,' he answered, 'because while you are pulling the weeds, you may root up the wheat with them. 30Let both grow together until the harvest. At that time I will tell the harvesters: First collect the weeds and tie them in bundles to be burned; then gather the wheat and bring it into my barn.' "
36Then he left the crowd and went into the house. His disciples came to him and said, "Explain to us the parable of the weeds in the field."
37He answered, "The one who sowed the good seed is the Son of Man. 38The field is the world, and the good seed stands for the sons of the kingdom. The weeds are the sons of the evil one, 39and the enemy who sows them is the devil. The harvest is the end of the age, and the harvesters are angels.
40"As the weeds are pulled up and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of the age. 41The Son of Man will send out his angels, and they will weed out of his kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil. 42They will throw them into the fiery furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. 43Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears, let him hear.
47"Once again, the kingdom of heaven is like a net that was let down into the lake and caught all kinds of fish. 48When it was full, the fishermen pulled it up on the shore. Then they sat down and collected the good fish in baskets, but threw the bad away. 49This is how it will be at the end of the age. The angels will come and separate the wicked from the righteous 50and throw them into the fiery furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
| Who are symbolized by the wheat? | Christians. |
| Who are symbolized by the weeds? | Jews. John 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. Acts 13:6-10 And when they had gone through the isle unto Paphos, they found a certain sorcerer, a false prophet, a Jew, whose name was Barjesus: And Paul said, O full of all subtlety and all mischief, thou child of the devil, thou enemy of all righteousness, wilt thou not cease to pervert the right ways of the Lord? |
| What exactly happens at the “harvest”? | The events described in Matthew 25. |
| What does it mean for the weeds to be pulled up and burned by fire? | It means their city will be invaded by the Armies of
Titus and burned, and they will be plucked out of the land like weeds And he shall
besiege thee in all thy gates, until thy high and fenced walls come down, wherein thou
trustedst, throughout all thy land: and he shall besiege thee in all thy gates throughout
all thy land, which the LORD thy God hath given thee. (Deuteronomy 28:52) |
| It says that the harvest and the burning of the weeds happen at the end of the age. Are there “weeds” in the world today that have not yet been “pulled up” and “burned”? | No. There are no Jews today. They converted or they were
destroyed. The prophecies we're discussing had to do with those who were alive at that
time. Then shall ye begin to say, We have eaten and drunk in Thy presence, and Thou hast taught in our streets. But He shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from Me, all ye workers of iniquity. (Luke 13:26-27) And when the chief priests and Pharisees had heard His parables, they perceived that He
spake of them. |
| Has “everything that causes sin and all who do evil” been “weeded out” yet? | 2 Peter 2, Matthew 23:25-39 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect, And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel. See that ye refuse not Him that speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused Him that spake on earth, much more shall not we escape, if we turn away from Him that speaketh from heaven: (Hebrews 12:25) And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life. (Revelation 21:27) Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; (Romans 2:9) "None escaped." |
| Have the angels come and separated the wicked from the righteous yet (v. 49)? | When the angels come (under your futurist vision), will Hitler be around for them to separate from the righteous? Was Jesus talking about Hitler or was He talking about those living in His day? The angels did what Jesus said they would do to those wicked of whom Jesus referred. |
| If there still are “weeds” or wicked people in the world today, how could the end of the age have occurred at 70 A.D.? | Because Jesus wasn't describing a judgment in 2,000 years, He was describing a judgment that would take place against and within the lifetime of those who rejected Him. |
| The charge of “heresy” or even “damnable heresy” is often leveled at FPs. This is not a charge that should ever be leveled at someone lightly. In the light of this passage, FP at least have [sic] the appearance of being an heretical system of doctrine and therefore FPs have certainly have some explaining to do. In this passage Paul speaks of two men who believed that the resurrection was a past event as heretics and dangerous. Many FPs teach that the resurrection already took place. | I can't believe people can't see the difference. FPs believe these events took place in AD70, years after Paul wrote these words to Timothy. Paul wrote to Timothy a few years before AD 70, a number we'll call a. Hymanaeus taught a few years (or at least some period of time) before Paul wrote about him, a number we'll call b. Hymanaeus said the resurrection had already occurred c number of years before he taught. We'll call the sum of these numbers a + b + c = x. I don't know of a single Full Preterist who teaches that the resurrection occurred in the year 70 - x. None of them could possibly be referred to by Paul. |
16Avoid godless chatter, because those who indulge in it will become more and more ungodly. 17Their teaching will spread like gangrene. Among them are Hymenaeus and Philetus, 18who have wandered away from the truth. They say that the resurrection has already taken place, and they destroy the faith of some.
| Does full preterism believe that the resurrection has already taken place? | Yes, but it did not occur before Jesus and Apostles said it would. |
| If so, how does full preterism differ from the teaching of Hymenaeus and Philetus? | Because H & P taught that it had occurred before Jesus and the Apostles said it would. |
| On the face of it, in this text the Lord seems to be speaking of a physical/bodily rising for judgment of every single believer and unbeliever that is physically in the grave. If the surface reading is correct, then this event clearly could not have happened in 70 A.D. nor would it be referring to a spiritual resurrection. Therefore, FP has yet another set of challenges to overcome in this passage. | Why did you leave out verse 25: John 5:25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live. Jesus did not say, "The hour is coming in about 2,000 years." |
28"Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice 29and come out--those who have done good will rise to live, and those who have done evil will rise to be condemned. 30By myself I can do nothing; I judge only as I hear, and my judgment is just, for I seek not to please myself but him who sent me.
| What do the words “graves” “come out” “rise” and “live” mean here? | Whatever they mean, the hour is now past -- "preterist" -- not future. |
| Who does the group “all who are in their graves” consist of (Is it every dead person in the world or is it a reference to a limited group)? | I think the primary reference is to those
living under the Old Covenant. The more I read Russell (that is, all the verses which speak of an "any-moment" discontinuity), the more I come under the impression that the New Testament is very much a part of the Old Testament, and that the Old Testament is all about the Jews, their rise and their destruction. Jesus was not speaking about a world 2,000 years away. This "Judeo-centrism" could be alarming to many Christians. It appears to make the Bible "less relevant" to us today. Ironically, as a "Christian Reconstructionist" I believe in applying "the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God" in our society today in practical ways so concrete and so inclusive that they offend most non-theonomic futurists. |
| When will or did this happen? | "The hour is coming, and
now is...." But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true
worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such
to worship him. (John 4:23) [How could salvation be any nearer than when one believes?] Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time. (1 John 2:18) |
| Resurrection language and reference to a “last day” are important issues in our discussion with FP. Non-FPs see this passage as a reference to the physical appearance of the Lord that will occur in the future and the physical resurrection of believers. A FP who encounters this passage needs to define these terms without being at odds with this same language in passages like John 5:28-30 and without cutting the legs out from under his own FP theological viewpoint. | We should also consider: (John 6:39-40) And this is the Father's will which hath sent Me, that of all which He hath given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. And this is the will of Him that sent Me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day. |
41At this the Jews began to grumble about him because he said, "I am the bread that came down from heaven." 42They said, "Is this not Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? How can he now say, 'I came down from heaven'?" 43"Stop grumbling among yourselves," Jesus answered. 44"No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him, and I will raise him up at the last day.
| What does it mean to “come” to Christ and is that event chronologically separate from being “raised up at the last day”? | "Come" = "believe."
Those who believe are raised up. Those who don't are judged. The last day also includes Judgment: He that rejecteth Me, and receiveth not My words, hath one that judgeth him: the Word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day. (John 12:48) And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ. {37} Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do? Acts 2:17,36-37 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds; (Hebrews 1:2) I cannot imagine any argument to convince me that the last days of the Old Covenant did not expire in AD70, and that Christ's coming and judgment did not occur as promised. |
| What does “raise him up” mean in verse 44? Consider John 5:28 and the use of the term “rise” in your answer. | John 5:25 Verily, verily, I say unto you,
The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and
they that hear shall live. Whatever this means, it happened when Jesus said it would happen. |
| When was or will be the last day? Consider Philippians 1:3-9 in your answer. | Consider: John 11:23-26 Jesus saith unto her, Thy brother shall rise again. {24} Martha saith unto Him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day. {25} Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: {26} And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this? Lazarus did not rise 2,000 years later, as Martha may have believed. Heb. 10:25 ye see the day approaching. 2 Peter 3:11-12 Seeing then that all these things are being dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, {12} Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, Revelation 6:17 For the great day of His wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand? |
| This final text is perhaps the most difficult for FP to interpret in a manner that does not do harm to the Scriptures. On the face of it, this chapter of 1 Corinthians argues for continuity between the physical resurrection of Christ and the physical resurrection of believers. In fact, Paul has traditionally been understood to be arguing that if you deny the general physical resurrection of believers you are denying the physical resurrection of Christ and thereby denying the faith! So FPs must do some hard work at interpreting this text in a responsible manner that will vindicate their system of theology from the charge of denying the faith altogether. | I admit this passage is perplexing. But it is no big
trick to interpret this passage in a manner that does not do harm to all the texts in
Scripture which say that Christ's coming, judgment and resurrection are right around the
corner. It is impossible to rightly interpret this passage in a manner which does not do
harm to Hal Lindsey's ideas about the end of the world. I agree that denying the physical resurrection of Christ is a denial of the faith. Denying a future physical resurrection of believers is not, especially if one posits a general resurrection of believers in the first century. |
1Now, brothers, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received and on which you have taken your stand. 2By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain. 3For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, 5and that he appeared to Peter, and then to the Twelve. 6After that, he appeared to more than five hundred of the brothers at the same time, most of whom are still living, though some have fallen asleep. 7Then he appeared to James, then to all the apostles, 8and last of all he appeared to me also, as to one abnormally born. 9For I am the least of the apostles and do not even deserve to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God. 10But by the grace of God I am what I am, and his grace to me was not without effect. No, I worked harder than all of them--yet not I, but the grace of God that was with me. 11Whether, then, it was I or they, this is what we preach, and this is what you believed.
| In verse 4 when it says Christ was raised, was he raised physically? | Yes, but not necessarily in the way you envision
yourself being resurrected. I honestly don't know what kind of post-resurrection body Jesus had. Perhaps we should "search the Scriptures" (Acts 17:11). Consider the following: Luke 24:31,37,51; John 20:19,26; 21:4. Will our resurrection bodies look exactly like Jesus' (Rev. 1:14-16)? These are not passages which justify dogmatism and excommunication. The only thing I know is that for many centuries the church has held that a number of passages of Scripture waited for a future fulfillment, and I believe we are discovering that they have already been or are now being fulfilled. |
| When people saw him did they see his resurrected physical body? | No, and this is especially remarkable in the case of
those who literally wrapped His dead body in linens for burial. How could you wrap a dead
body around and around with linens and then not recognize that body when resurrected? Luke
24:16 But their eyes were holden that they should not know him. Jesus would not let her touch Him (John 20:17). Will I be equally untouchable when resurrected? (All eternity without a hug from anyone?) |
12But if it is preached that Christ has been raised from the dead, how can some of you say that there is no resurrection of the dead?
| Is there a difference between the meaning of “raised from the dead” in 12a and “resurrection of the dead in 12b? | It could well be. It could also be that this resurrection is now past. Luke 20:37 Now that the dead are raised, even Moses showed at the bush, when he calleth
the Lord the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. Was Jesus saying that Abraham was not dead? O was Abraham resurrected in the first century? Matthew 27:52-53 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, {53} And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many. Luke 13:28 There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out. |
13If there is no resurrection of the dead, then not even Christ has been raised. 14And if Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith. 15More than that, we are then found to be false witnesses about God, for we have testified about God that he raised Christ from the dead. But he did not raise him if in fact the dead are not raised. 16For if the dead are not raised, then Christ has not been raised either.
| Paul seems to be tying a denial of the resurrection of the dead in general to a necessary denial of the resurrection of Christ. How do you explain this? | Obviously, if no dead people are raised, and Jesus was a dead person, then He could not have been raised. |
| In verse 16 Paul seems to be equating the raising of the dead in general with the raising of Christ first spoken of in verse 4. Is Paul teaching God “raises” “the dead” in the same way Christ was “raised”? | No. He's not saying anything one way or the other on this question. It seems obvious to me that Jesus' resurrection was different than everyone else's, no matter how you define it. He was unrecognizable and could not be touched. There were other unique attributes of His resurrection. No surprise there. |
| If not, how are they different and where in the text do you see this difference spoken about? | The differences may not be spoken of in this text, but elsewhere. |
17And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile; you are still in your sins. 18Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ are lost. 19If only for this life we have hope in Christ, we are to be pitied more than all men. 20But Christ has indeed been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. 21For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man.
| Does raised from the dead in verse 4 have the same meaning as resurrection of the dead in verse 21? | Not exactly, because Jesus was not a part of "the resurrection of the dead." |
| If they are different, in what way are they different and what is your basis for making a distinction? | Even you will admit that "the resurrection of the dead" did not take place when Jesus was raised from the dead. Even the resurrection of the dead spoken of by Matthew occurred "after His resurrection." |
| Does “dead” in verse 20 refer to physical death? | Yes. |
| Do “death” and “dead” in verse 21 refer to physical death? | I would not exclude a reference to spiritual death. |
| If you find a different meaning in the use of the term “dead” or “death” in these two verses, how do you arrive at this different meaning given the close context of the same term? | Because Christ is way different from man, and the circumstances of His resurrection way different from ours. Christ did not see corruption. David did. |
22For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. 23But each in his own turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him.
| Verse 23 says that each (will be made alive) in his own turn. Christ is made alive first. In what sense was Christ made alive? Consider verses 3-11 in your answer. | I'll tell you in what sense He was made alive when you tell me when He comes. |
| In what sense are those made alive who “belong to him”? | |
| It would seem that whatever Christ had a “turn” at, so will (or did) all those who belong to him. It would also seem as if there are only two resurrection or “made alive” days—Christ’s resurrection and then “when he comes” the group of those who belong to him. | It might seem that way if you look only at this one text. But plainly there were other resurrections. |
| Can this be referring to individual spiritual resurrection whenever conversion happens? | It seems rather to be referring to resurrections that happened in "the last days" of the Old Covenant. |
| If so, how can this be supported in the text? | Not everything can be supported in one text. |
24Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power. 25For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. 26The last enemy to be destroyed is death.
| Has the kingdom been handed over? | Yes, David's Kingdom has been handed over. |
| Have all of Christ’s enemies been placed under his feet? Consider Hebrews 10:13 in your answer. | Consider Ephesians 1:19-22: And what is the exceeding greatness of His power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of His mighty power, {20} Which He wrought in Christ, when He raised Him from the dead, and set Him at his own right hand in the heavenly places, {21} Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come: {22} And hath put all things under His feet, and gave Him to be the head over all things to the church, |
| Has death been destroyed? | 2 Timothy 1:10 But is now made manifest by
the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life
and immortality to light through the gospel: 1 John 3:14 We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. Hebrews 2:14 that through death He might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil; 1 Cor. 15:55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory? |
| What is meant by “death” in verse 25? Consider your answer in the light of previous uses of the term in this chapter (v. 3, 12-17, 20, 21). | During the last days, the dead were raised, both before and after Christ was raised. |
| Is the “then” in verse 24 temporally related to the “when he comes” and the “raising” of “those who belong to him” in verse 23? | Yes, "the end" was when Christ came. |
| How do you harmonize verse 26 as well as verse 54 with 2 Timothy 1:10, which speaks of death being destroyed and life and immortality being brought through the Gospel even before 70 A.D.? | How do YOU harmonize death being abolished before the yet-future second coming? AD70 is not a magic talisman, it's just a shorthand for all the epoch events of Christ's Advent, which culminated in AD70. That whole period of time is spoken of as "the last days." |
27For he "has put everything under his feet." Now when it says that "everything" has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ. 28When he has done this, then the Son himself will be made subject to him who put everything under him, so that God may be all in all. 29Now if there is no resurrection, what will those do who are baptized for the dead? If the dead are not raised at all, why are people baptized for them? 30And as for us, why do we endanger ourselves every hour? 31I die every day--I mean that, brothers--just as surely as I glory over you in Christ Jesus our Lord. 32If I fought wild beasts in Ephesus for merely human reasons, what have I gained? If the dead are not raised,
"Let us eat and drink,
for tomorrow we die."
33Do not be misled: "Bad company corrupts good character." 34Come back to your senses as you ought, and stop sinning; for there are some who are ignorant of God--I say this to your shame.
| When Paul says “If the dead are not raised” in verse 32, is he speaking of physical resurrection? | |
| Is he thinking of all of the dead around the world? | |
| When does he think this will happen? Consider verses 22 and 23 in your answer. | Consider v. 51. This is consistent with Christ's declaration that there were some standing there who would not taste death before they witnessed the end. |
35But someone may ask, "How are the dead raised? With what kind of body will they come?" 36How foolish! What you sow does not come to life unless it dies. 37When you sow, you do not plant the body that will be, but just a seed, perhaps of wheat or of something else. 38But God gives it a body as he has determined, and to each kind of seed he gives its own body. 39All flesh is not the same: Men have one kind of flesh, animals have another, birds another and fish another. 40There are also heavenly bodies and there are earthly bodies; but the splendor of the heavenly bodies is one kind, and the splendor of the earthly bodies is another. 41The sun has one kind of splendor, the moon another and the stars another; and star differs from star in splendor. 42So will it be with the resurrection of the dead. The body that is sown is perishable, it is raised imperishable; 43it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; 44it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body.
| What does the question in verse 35 mean? | |
| When it asks about the manner of the dead being raised and the kind of body they will have, is the focus on the physical raising and the physical body? Again, consider the previous uses of the dead being “raised” as in verse 4 in your answer. | |
| What does “resurrection of the dead” mean in verse 42? Does “sown” in verse 42-44 refer to physical death or spiritual death? Consider the meaning of buried and dead throughout this passage in your answer. | |
| Notice the “it” repeated throughout verses 42-44. Is the same “body” (the “it”) changed from perishable to imperishable? | |
| Is this a physical change? | |
| Did Christ go through this change? | |
| Is Christ’s resurrected body this same imperishable/glorious/spiritual kind of body? Consider Luke 24:38-39 and Philippians 3:20-21 in your answer. | What about Luke 24:31, and a few hours later, verse 36. |
| What do the terms “natural” and “spiritual” mean in this context? Consider 1 Corinthians 2:12-14, 10:3-4, James 3:15, 17, Jude 19 in your answer. |
45So it is written: "The first man Adam became a living being" ; the last Adam, a lifegiving spirit. 46The spiritual did not come first, but the natural, and after that the spiritual. 47The first man was of the dust of the earth, the second man from heaven. 48As was the earthly man, so are those who are of the earth; and as is the man from heaven, so also are those who are of heaven. 49And just as we have borne the likeness of the earthly man, so shall we bear the likeness of the man from heaven. 50I declare to you, brothers, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable.
| Is verse 50 saying that corporeal/physical beings cannot be in the presence of God? These seem to be the synonyms in the text: | |
Flesh and blood = perishable = dishonorable = weak = natural body |
|
Not flesh and blood = imperishable = glorious = powerful = spiritual body |
|
| Did Christ inherit the kingdom of heaven in a physical body? Consider Hebrews 1:2-3, Luke 24:38-39, and Acts 1:9-11 in your answer. | |
| Was Christ’s body transformed at the resurrection into an imperishable glorious powerful spiritual body that was not flesh and blood but was physical/material? Consider Philippians 3:20-21 and Luke 24:38-39 in your answer. |
51Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed-- 52in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.
| What does “dead will be raised” mean in verse 52? Is your answer consistent with the rest of the uses of “dead raised” in this passage (v. 4, 12-17, 20, 22, 32)? | |
| This change seems to be a single event—when did/will it happen and what did/will happen to those individuals who were/will be changed? | This is certainly the key to the whole
issue, not the nature of our bodies after resurrection, about which little definite
information is given. The inescapable claim of the New Testament writers is that these
"last days" events would occur before "this generation" died out. I
really don't know the exact details of a lot of those other questions, but this seems to
be clear: The New Testament is focused on the end of the Old Covenant world, and the
timing of these culminating events is most certainly not in
2,000 years or 20,000 years. It is imminent, "at hand," "about to
happen," and no later than the death of the last eye-witness of Christ. Paul said this event would happen before they all died. "We shall not all sleep." If the resurrection of the dead did not take place in the first century, then they all did sleep, Paul was mistaken, and the New Testament is untrustworthy. It doesn't bother me that I don't understand what exactly happened, nor that there was no inspired writer around to write about it and confirm that Paul was right. Paul was right -- they did not all sleep. They were changed. The judgment of the quick and the dead presupposes the resurrection of the dead. The timing of both events is clearly stated, even if the exact nature of the events is not: He is about to judge the world in righteousness" (Acts 17:31) "There is about to be [mellein] a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked." (Acts 24:15) "we who are alive, and remain until the coming of the Lord We who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds You, brethren, are not in darkness, that the Day should overtake you like a thief." (I Thess. 4:15,17; 5:4) "I solemnly charge you in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who is about to judge the living and the dead" (II Tim. 4:1) "They shall give account to Him who is ready to judge the living and the dead." (I Peter 4:5) |
53For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality. 54When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come true: "Death has been swallowed up in victory."
55"Where, O death, is your victory?
Where, O death, is your sting?" 56The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law. 57But thanks be to God! He gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
58Therefore, my dear brothers, stand firm. Let nothing move you. Always give yourselves fully to the work of the Lord, because you know that your labor in the Lord is not in vain.
| What is the meaning of death in verses 54, 55, and 56? Consider the meaning of death in verses 3, 12-17, 20, 21 in your answer. | |
| What does it mean to have the mortal “clothed with immortality”? | |
| When this happens (or happened) one can say that Death has been swallowed up in victory. Has the “then” of verse 54 already occurred? | |
| If so, what specifically is the victory that had not yet occurred at the writing of this letter to the Corinthians? | "The Holy Spirit is signifying this,
that the way of the [heavenly] Holy Places has not yet been revealed, while the outer
tabernacle is still standing, which is a symbol for the present time. Accordingly both
gifts and sacrifices are offered which cannot make the worshiper perfect in conscience,
since they relate only to food and drink and various washings, regulations for the body
imposed until a time of reformation." (Heb. 9:8-10; Compare Gal. 4:19; Eph. 2:21-22;
3:17; 4:13) "When He said, 'A new covenant,' He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to disappear." (Heb. 8:13) |
| I admit I don't have all the Full Preterist answers on 1 Corinthians 15. I've read very little on this particular aspect of Full Preterism. If anyone has better answers, I'll update this page with them. |
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